Tim Lynch: Has China stolen a march on the US, as it increasingly strides the main stage?

Interviewed by

Lisa Er

Tim Lynch: Has China stolen a march on the US, as it increasingly strides the main stage?

China has been hoovering up near on all the world’s steel and cement, in this process it has consolidated a vast new country wide infrastructure.

Whilst the US, has been distracted and immersed in ‘Neocon’ wars, especially in the Middle East and elsewhere it basically has no money to upgrade its own countries infrastructure.

From Communism to Consumerism

Since Paramount Leader Deng opened up China to far-reaching market-economy reforms in 1978, China has increasingly impacted the whole world.

With 1.4 billion people, in comparison to the USA’s 320 million - we are now seeing the might of ‘the China effect’. This has far reaching implications for our planetary ecology and geo-politics. Will China’s appetite for growth and ‘soft power’ - also take us beyond the environmental global tipping point?

Tim gives us a brief summary of his recent visit as to what is happening across the ever changing face of China and what portends to the future of quite possibly the human endeavor - in a world that is in need of wisdom, consciousness and leadership.



Tim: We need to be reminded that every day there is some event happening in our world that is actually very heartwarming, like the myriad numbers of people globally engaged in random acts of kindness.

Where they do wonderful deeds to help someone out and in the process receive delightful smiles back. Resulting in a win-win situation that brings a little more light to our day or paying it forward.

Where someone may offer to do you a favor of gifting you either time or money and you graciously decline but happily say please it's okay just pay it forward. And do a favor to some person whom you wish to make happy.

These unheralded happenings are in many ways like the glue that keeps our society intact and coherent for like generous acts of goodwill and even volunteerism where we find ourselves in a peaceful disposition to feel that we can gift the community and world it makes a heartfelt impact. As this feeling of connectivity and connection radiates out into the community and the world at large.

So we need to remember this ability to bring a little more levity and warmth to our daily life as it definitely feeds the soul and on more subtle levels we never know who our client actions may touch.

Lisa: Kia Ora and welcome, today I have in the studio Tim Lynch who is normally sitting where I'm sitting but I'm going to interview him today on his recent visit to China. So welcome Tim and it's lovely to be interviewing you.

Tim: Ni hao. Hello and Kia Ora.

Lisa: Well Tim, last September you took off for about 12 days to join in my flying visit but then having been Air New Zealand crew in the past I guess you're used to flying visits?

Tim: Very true.

Lisa: But Tim tell me where did you go first?

Tim: Well I went from Auckland to Hong Kong and then from Hong Kong I took a quick flight up to Shanghai and from Shanghai then to Xi’an the ancient capital up in the Shaanxi province and then Suzhou which is a smaller city just west of Shanghai and then back to Shanghai Hong Kong to Aotearoa.

Lisa: Okay so that sounds really quite interesting and a lot of places to visit, why did you go?

Tim: Well there were a number of reasons though I used to fly as a crew at Air New Zealand and I came across Bruce Cathie who was a 737 cap and he has a long history of checking out unidentified flying objects or UFOs. And he was really right out there in the early stages of late 60s 70s and the 80s 90s where he worked out that there was a planetary grid. And he found out that a lot of UFO sightings were on this particular mathematical or geometric grid that embraced our whole planet that the Russians also seemed to have an understanding of. And he had looked at how the pyramids of Cheops was placed in Egypt as well as the pyramids in Mexico - Teotihuacan and he found a US Air Force photograph and war map of one sitting in the Shaanxi Province up in China. And I wanted to know more about it and way back in 1986 I'd gone up into China and looking for it.

I found a number of pyramids there were actually tombs very close to Xian the ancient capital. You know I photographed them and climbed them but they were extremely small. But I didn't find this one that I really wanted.

So I went back in 1990 about six weeks after Tiananmen Square and had another look. Now it's really interesting because it was very very peaceful when I was in China both those times. I hardly saw a policeman, I didn't see any army or guns or anything like that. The country seems to run really quite harmonious to the average eye looking.

Anyway so this time when I went back in 1990, I hired a bike and I used Bruce Cathie's Air Force map or photocopy of an Air Force map and tracked rivers and railway lines.

And after bicycling for about thirty-five k’s I found this pyramid and I climbed it and realized it was nowhere near the gigantic size said it was supposed to be. It was only around about 36 meters high and it had a base around a bit odd now around about 200 meters long.

And I thought to myself well this is definitely it but it's not the one that we thought was going to be there, the big eye-opener for the human race. And this pyramid is called the Maoling Mausoleum and one of the Han Dynasty Empress has been buried underneath it.

Now it's very interesting because there's supposed to be a lot of mercury being put onto that pyramid as well. Because the Han leader wanted longevity, he wanted to build up his life and so he was actually given mercury, thinking it maybe was the going to be the the answer to his life which cut it short instead. This is some of the craziness here.

But anyway I came back to New Zealand and I told Bruce Cathie, I said look Bruce I'm sorry the great myth is busted, doesn't exist and so I lifted that and I had photos.

But it was only a year ago that I decided to develop these photos I had just put them in storage and so I've got these pictures and anyway this is one of the reasons I thought I was going to go back up again and have another look at it and I was going to do a facebook video. And say “well here I am we can be rest assured that regrettably of a gigantic pyramid that's supposed to be in China does not actually exist”. So that was one of the drivers of me going to China.

The other one was back in 2003, I was a teacher, a language teacher and well one of my students or my best student happened to be living up just out of Shanghai in Suzhou and she invited me up and say we'll look if you're going to come up to China I can be your translator. So that's how I ended up being in China because I knew that with the translator that’d be able to help me and another deeper level of finding out about the psyche of China.

Lisa: Wonderful so a sort of two different reasons for going and twelve days to do it all in.

Tim: That's right well I've previously been to Hong Kong about what now 15 to 20 times. And you know it and early ‘76 I've gone over and divisions in which you'll see the new Chinese development area it was an industrial zone.

They were starting to realize that there's a whole lot of potential in that whole country and then I've gone over to Canton on about and I've had numerous trips up end to China. But in 2003 I was teaching up there for a number of months and I realized that what China was doing is that it was renewing or modernizing all the cities across China.

And so the authorities what they are doing is that I'd go into a city and then say we are sacred temples the sacred well the sacred hill the lake anything of cultural significance that put a ring fence around them and then basically level all the shanty buildings and start again. And that's what they had done and when I went up there last year it just blew me away of what I would say the physical process of modernization was profound and I can go into that in a moment.

Lisa: Well they kind of learned from the West's mistake because in the West we've done things more gradually and over much more time and done a lot of things incorrectly and destroyed things of cultural value. They've been able to look at that and see what we didn't get right and then improve on that so that's why you'd have modern cities with beautiful ancient temples and things I would mention.

Tim: Yes well I use Singapore in many cases the template because Singapore was a pretty much a shanty town. And when I first time when I went there was in 1972 and it was was a pretty rough area and Lee Kuan Yew had just come into power and he was starting to get some traction and making that city a modern city. So Singapore started off with a whole buildings have some very strong central planning and it has become a very successful city architectural-wise, etc.

Now for China, mainland China that followed that particular template and Shanghai and all the major cities are now very, very modern. What I noticed was that there were...I don't know where to start. But what I could say I'll start underneath.

When I went to Shanghai I noticed that that copied Singapore's subways and all the subways were clean and tidy and efficient and when I went upstairs at ground level there they had all these buses clean new buses and they were all tied in electronically at all the different bus stops. There was information as to where the buses were. But the Chinese people using the ubiquitous mobile phone could track everything across the whole city. And so they knew when to go and pick up a bus and just were quickly looking at their telephone.

And then further out on the outskirts of town that's what really blew me away they had brand new airport-like bullet train stations. And from there the bullet trains fanned out across the country and I realized just how much they had worked it all out. There was a lot of brain power brought in to make this country a 21st century country. And this is what the Chinese are onto.

Lisa: Well I suppose it's possible to do that if you have a dictatorship authoritarian country because you don't have to go through all the regulations and red tapes that we'd have to do here to be able to do that. And also I guess everything isn't privatized.

Tim: These...all these considerations are as mazes as the bullet train that I was on I'd look out at the countryside and a lot of it very green, a lot of gardens, gardens everywhere producing foods for cities. And I would say motorways that had been punched through into the countryside, three lanes on one side three lanes on the other and I realized that the authorities would have been able to get these put in place very quickly because it would be all strategic. And strategic for industry and strategic also in the case of the military.

And so yes there's all those sorts of things and on the other side of a coin - in all the cities they had electric motor scooters everywhere. They had these quiet little machines and they'd worked out the cities that in the main thoroughfare cars and buses would go down and then there would be a little separation from those and you'd have little lanes alongside where cars and trucks could bring in food and produce and and merchandize etc.

And in a next you'd have a footpaths and where people could walk and each one would be sort of divided by a little fence and a lot of trees a lot of trees in the city because they know they need trees. And this is going to be a big story for them in the future of getting trees to clean up the pollution. And by having electric motorcycles because there's a mega millions of them motor scooters shall I say that the air is a very important issue for a Chinese at the moment.

Lisa: Well I mean Beijing's one of the most polluted cities in the world isn't it and that's why even here you see a lot of Chinese with masks over their faces when they're in the city because they don't want to breathe in all the carbon monoxide or whatever it is.

Tim: Particulates all the different type of particulates that on a micro-level. Yes it's a huge problem and then after the air challenge they have also got to deal with water. Water is another one. And it was really interesting because I know when I was up in 2003 I went round looking at the water and I'd buy water at shops and believe it or not the best tasting water that I drank was from Coca-cola. Coca-cola knowing in the future that people are going to get wise to the junk drink that they put out have strategically bought up all the water companies around the world. And they had bought a very good water well or at least a spring and they were bottling quality water which I drank.

And I noticed that was very good and I was in Australia many years ago and I studied water and I realized what good water is because I also saw that Nestle was selling water. And when I drank that water I knew instantly that it was just filtered water from the mains or at least it tasted that quality.

Lisa: All right well Nestle is trying to buy up all the water in the world as well and have made the CEOs made it very clear that we should not get water free.

Tim: Not a human right he says.

Lisa: But this is interesting because in China I would imagine that there is some sort of idea that everybody has a right to food and water.

Tim: Well what I found is that the Chinese eat very, very well. So well in fact that I only saw one obese person and all the time that I was there I knew once that person and I thought they must have had a thyroid or a glandular challenge.

But the food that they eat and I went to markets and I looked at all sorts of food very very good quality on the appearance. I mean I wasn't able to go in and check and see exactly where was the organic section or anything like that but the Chinese are aware that they have to eat good food. And but one thing did upset me was seeing a lot of squid for sale and I know that squid has picked up by all these squid fishing boats globally.

And I have there also been in touch of a person who used to work at AUT Auckland University of Technology who studies sperm whales and he said that there's a lot of sperm whales that they're finding with no squid and their tummies at all in their stomachs. Because of the fact that there are too many fishing boats taking this squid from the water. So we have to really look seriously at this because it's huge but the global fishing fleets are taking all the fish and we got to get right back to localized aquaculture if we want to get savvy. And if people will have protein from fish then we've got to take the fish from land or ponds and not from our oceans.

Lisa: Yes it's a difficult one I'll tell you in Thailand I have never seen so many fishing boats, they were just about cheek-by-jowl. It was incredible so I mean I don't see how the fish have a chance.

Tim: They don't, they don't. I've had numerous interviews of people here in the studio and they're using all the latest technology. So now they're tracking, they're tracking all these fish and they're corralling them. And yes we're going to have a crash by 2040 due to the fact that there's no real licensing there because we've got a as a humanity start cutting back on taking the fish from the sea. Yes.

Lisa: Yes yes China is a country, it sounds like they are planning all the time for the future

Tim: Oh yes

Lisa: So I would think that they will actually eventually get to looking at fish stocks around the sea. Because there is definitely this idea of we've got to look after the environment, the air, the water and so I imagine the sea will come into that as well. But I hope not too late.

Tim: That's right they are thinking about it I know because previous year I was actually there when they had their big huge conference. I saw it was a gigantic conference where he was able to consolidate power but he was also laying out a vision. He wants China to be a beautiful country and he knows that nature is part of this whole thing.

And I want to get into Taoism and the ancient mystical thought of how China came into being thousands of years ago but I want to be able to just cover also a few other things. I was amazed at all the bicycles that are lined up in the cities. And they've got the QR code, the quick response code, the matrix barcode decal type thing like a computer barcode that's stuck on all sorts of items these days and so that with a mobile telephone you can just go one click.

That telephoning can follow through on that particular barcode and we can find out all the information on that particular item. And they use Alibaba which is the big Amazon of China to act as the banker so at all the people in China really when they want to buy something they just click click click like this. And it all automatically goes through Alibaba to their bank accounts and the bank account is debited whatever that particular item that they want to buy.

And so they're getting really, really organized. But get back to these bicycles they even had a little solar units on it as well to keep the lights etcetera going for the bike. But I have heard since that a lot of these bikes are ending up in dumps. People are for the first hours it’s free and so in that first day if they dump it they can walk away and no responsibility. After one hour you have to get your phone and then click on the button to get your barcode sorted and then they know who has actually taken responsibility for it. So they kinda have to tidy all this up.

Lisa: They'll have to make it hang from the beginning because I saw on the news New Zealand news a massive dump of bicycles in Beijing. It's absolutely huge yes I couldn't believe it. And I thought how could these people be throwing the bikes away. So yes they have to recycle them all of course and repair them and change the system and not give them an hour free which is unfortunate but that's I suppose human nature, not really respecting the system.

Tim: You've got it, this is true. When you give somebody something free regrettably, there are certain ones among us who does have got no respect for the goodness of what that gift is. And here so will this new QR coding it's going to is going to be able to make the people more responsible for everything that they get. Because they're finding to that if they throw something away or like a cigarette packet on the side of the street they can track back from that code too like the RFID code then see who bought it. And then find out who dropped it on the ground.

Lisa: So really what you got going on in China you've got the the kind of Western materialistic capitalist type of thought coming through and that would be those people that would throw the bikes away. And then you've got the the respectful people who still understand the old ways maybe or who have been taught the old ways that would care about the community and not just about the individual.

Tim: Here's an interesting one what shocked me and that really shocked me was wherever I went as far as the eye could see I could see these 50-storey apartment buildings and I couldn't believe the amount of them. And I was on the bullet train were going through the country whose see clusters of them all over the country and some of them I felt were a little bit too close to each other. But I have managed to be able to go into one of these and I was on the 12th floor and I went into a home and it was with only Onewa, my translator’s family and his sister and her husband and a new little daughter, lovely little daughter sweet one, Bella was her name. And I went in there and they cooked me up a magnificent feast and I was able to go in with my video. And the living room and the lounge were joined to the kitchen and there was ample room for bedrooms. And the little daughter she had her whole corner in the lounge it was her little special posi where she could she had a little fence around it and she had her dolls house and and all their toys and was it was delightful.

And I thought to myself if I had to live in a and this apartment would definitely fulfill my needs and so what is that the government wants to make sure that people in China have got very good accommodation. And so from that good we can definitely learn from this is a very very important issue because what they’ve done is that they’ve pulled up six hundred million people out of what I would say quite depressed situations of huts and houses that some would say would possibly squalid particularly in the rural sector they still got work to do there but it's happening.

And what really impacted me in this whole journey was that China has stolen a march on Uncle Sam. It has actually outflanked America by putting huge amounts of money into the infrastructure across the whole nation. And the reason why it's been able to do this is because it's got no wars going. America has got itself totally entangled in the octopus that it is and wars everywhere particularly in the Mediterranean and the Arab world.

Lisa: Well Africa too - very quietly.

Tim: Yes well that's right this challenge is about for years of in Somalia. So what America has done is it has squandered all its resources and put it into war and to the military-industrial complex and if you do note there's 21 trillion dollars in the last few months that is unaccounted for that has been lost within the military-industrial complex - 21 trillion dollars. And has come out of a big university in the United States so we're going to find out more about this. So Michigan State University and Professor Mark Skidmore are exposing this fraud. America has lost its opportunity.

I've been up to America in 2014 I was up there and I was astounded at how little infrastructure had been put in place and Trump was actually going to...he recognized that too and he was going to put all this money into the infrastructure and we just don't know what's going on there. But this is where it is now China is quickly becoming a very modern country for the last 20 years plus it's essentially hoovered up all cements and all the steel globally to build up the country.

Lisa: Well it's a big place to build up isn't it?

Tim: Fourth largest country land mass wise on earth yes

Lisa: And yeah I was in the U.S. in 2014 too - and in well no it's in 2011 actually in New York and I mean the pavements were broken all over the place you have to watch where you were walking or you’ll trip.

Tim: I agree with you I remember when I went there in 2010 I went down to a specific place on Lincoln Boulevard just before you go up towards the airport and way back in 1993 when I was in Los Angeles I saw this but they could part of the road I thought gosh this is terrible.

Well in 2010 I went back to that same place and it was still there and then I started photographing all the broken up footpaths. And the more I looked I thought this is terrible and I thought hold on, hold on stop photographing all this sort of stuff. I don't want to photograph the demise of America.

I want to see what what are the good things coming through the cultural creators and see if we can actually rebuild our countries and rebuild our planet.

Lisa: Well it's running a bit slow in doing this unfortunately over there yes but going back to China how do you think they would have fared if they had not had a central government like that running it, would they have been able to do it?

Tim: Well I don't think so I mean we've only now understand from government even going back to Chang Kai Shek and all the way back to the dynasties who always came from the top of the pyramid that what it is at the moment has said I have faith I came away with a feeling Lisa that China could also be a new light in the world.

Because I found a lot of kindness with the people particularly all people that look at me and I'd look at my bushy eyebrows and and they couldn't understand who I was. And when my friend Onewa we went up to Shanghai, in the main street of Shanghai. I mean it was all dazzling lights and clean and tidy you had people always cleaners cleaning up after everybody. There's no cigarette butts on the ground and you know China was a great nation of smokers about 300 million, well that's starting to decline now.

But when we walked through Shanghai she would say Tim, Tim they’re all staring at you they're looking at you and they think, well they know that you're not an American and I know that you're not because up here they just can't quite work you out. And I said well it's not often that they see a hobbit from Matamata in New Zealand. So there was so much in the way of I don't know goodness coming from the people.

I was on a train once and the Chinese wanted to share their food with me. They wanted to make sure that I was having a good trip and now we only communicate through sign language in this case, I could anyway. But again with Onewa’s family they just took me out to restaurant after restaurant and they wouldn't receive any money from me.

They took me everywhere, they just wanted to be kind and it's really interesting because when I came back to New Zealand I met a Kiwi businessman who had worked and lived in China. And he said Tim, you know what those Chinese people who took you out they would have been really glad to have met you because they've never really met a Westerner who likes to reciprocate and be kind be thoughtful be mindful. They see us Westerners going all the way back to the Opium Wars as really wanting to exploit China.

And this is what really we have done. I mean China has always been on the wrong end of the bargain and when it has come to Britain, Europe, and America. I mean we've given China a hard time. And so the Chinese aren't too sure about us.

So he said when a lot of the Chinese people now they're leaving China and going over to Canada and America and New Zealand and Australia, he said a lot of them have been able to get out of China because they've got a lot of money. They've been able to go into other countries and he said some of these other countries that they go to they're only seeing the entrepreneurial Chinese. The one Chinese who are really going for the money. And they haven't got really a lot of time to spend with community in their new country and sometimes you will see them has been focused only on money.

Whereas in China the ordinary people they're not just necessarily focused on the monetary thing. Yes they like the technology, they like the change at the scene. I am very very proud of their country because in a matter of years they are witnessing the upgrading of everything from transportation to housing and and the health is getting better.

Though I went to a Chinese health shop and I saw all the different leaves and roots of plants. And in Singapore you'll see even seahorses and it's right there tons of this and that and claws of bears and this is as you know the dark side of the house that these are still a balance here between Western health and Eastern health. And acupuncture is still an important thing

Lisa: Well they have I know acupuncture at hospitals for example. So that's you know they've got the Western the best of the West and the East in a way.

Tim: Very true yes I had a very dear friend who went to an acupuncturist here in Mount Eden. And he was Chinese and he used to fly back to Shanghai regularly and he was involved with open hearts surgery. And he was able to find the nodal points in that body so that they could have the operation without having to go through all the heavy injections. And God knows what else what we do to - what does it mean anesthetic anesthetics. So yeah well so there's a lot going on in this country that we don't know. And I'm just fascinated with where it is going to go bearing in mind that China and Russia are getting closer together. And in an actual fact America needs to find ways to put out their hand and say come on we all share the same breath we are a planetary culture we're a global family we need to work it all out so that we can be a planet of peace.

Lisa: Unfortunately I don't see the U.S. doing that anytime soon. And what New Zealand needs to know is we have to look at who our friends are and that's really important in my opinion.

Tim: You are listening to Lisa Er interview me Tim Lynch on my recent trip to China.

Lisa: I mean I know in China for example if you disagree with the regime or whatever you're in big trouble certainly. And if you go overseas to try and get away from it they can still get you back one way in another. So there are some downsides definitely but overall economically and everything else I think that perhaps yes Russia and China should be our friends.

Tim: It's a very interesting thing because I thought about it and this always...I'm an activist and if I see something that's out of alignment or there's a human right being violated or nature's been violated, I know this I'll I'll get in and I'll stand up for nature. And I realize that most probably I would end up in the eyesight of the authorities both in China and in Russia. So yes I can see that I could get into a tight squeeze in these countries.

And yet when I was in Russia only three years ago they treated me royally and I was with Russians for a whole month. And I never met an American or an Englishman or an Australian or at all or anybody from the West. So we're going to have another look at life and we've got to we need to go to these countries and spend time with the people. Because of people have a common denominator and I agree with you we need to have a far more open understanding of foreign relations.

Lisa: We could do that actually in New Zealand because there are a lot of people from other countries in New Zealand and yet they tend to stick together because they're not invited into New Zealanders homes. There's no real not enough anyway community building between different nationalities here. And I noticed it very much actually because I have quite a lot of friends from different nationalities and also when I was working we had 29 staff we had 15 different nationalities. So it gives you an idea then as to how people will view things differently. And I think we could do that in New Zealand just build on that even if you can't go overseas and see the other cultures. We can learn here.

Tim: I'm in agreement. I think been skilled and conflict resolution understanding how we can in many ways or find ways to communicate through all the difficulties reconciling opposing points of views. I cannot understand why New Zealand hasn't had a huge involvement and communication with the Scandinavian countries. We need to have been in Scandinavia for the last 30 to 40 years just learning from them because their social and their industrial ideas work towards getting the people on board working together. It's like having share ownership and things like that. So this may happen again China may come through with some very interesting ways of doing life and innovative business principles.

Lisa: They could do I mean now you're allowed more than one child I think.

Tim: That’s correct.

Lisa: Because that was a really hard policy and put too much pressure on that one child. So the pressure on Chinese children to learn and to do well was really quite unreasonable I believe. So hopefully that will relax now but there's more than one child.

Tim: I would think so I'd like to think so too. Kiddies need need a brother and sister they need somebody to play with and it balances up everything otherwise they could we know in other countries a single child can become quite precocious. But what I'm really trusting on Lisa is that once the Chinese people gets full of material things and especially consumerism and realize that they only serve a certain purpose that they will then start self reflecting on who they are as a civilization and go back to how the early Taoist and the Buddhists live and look at all the different spiritual qualities.

Because there's a thing like Tai Chi and Chi-gong (Qigong) Tai Chi Chi-gong Kung Fu these have an understanding of Chi. Chi is a hidden energy that we in the West haven't been able to grasp at all. But acupuncturists can because they know that Chi flows through our body and by strategically placing certain needles in their body they can unblock the energy at a Meridian nodal point to allow us to have a flow in our whole physical configuration that'll help us heal.

And so then is the I Ching the I Ching for defining very very interesting method of being able to tune into certain forces. I mean this Feng shui is how you put a house together, how you put your rooms together, how the land has worked with when you put trees and stones and walls and that sort of thing. They understand they have this particular sense and there are many other unique spiritual qualities to the Chinese Way of life.

And I know one of the things that shocked me when I was up in China the Simpsons had come to China and Bart Simpson was on TV every night. And up to possibly 300 million young Chinese were watching Bart create mayhem and break all of the taboos of life every night. That he was in many ways single-handedly he was deconstructing and pulling the rug out from 2500 years of Confucian thought.

Lisa: Well my problem with Bart Simpson and Homer Simpson well the Simpsons is that it's very poor role model for boys.

Tim: Completely, you bet.

Lisa: And that's it's quite interesting we've had quite a long time of The Simpsons here in New Zealand and boys have been outperformed by girls at school. And it just makes me wonder how much influence the television has? I suspect it has huge influence on the children seeing the boys are dumb and the girls are bright because that's what the Simpsons were showing.

Tim: Very much.

Lisa: Not very good if it does that in China either.

Tim: That's right well I don't know I didn't ask at the time was were the Simpsons on China. I somehow think that they have been pushed aside because when I was teaching them the language school here in Auckland the Chinese came down they flocked down in 2002 and 2003. Auckland was a mess the main street of Auckland at lunchtime was essentially 75% Asian and about 25% Auckland solely because the language schools were in the city and that what was happening is that all the youngsters at 17, 18, 19 year-old they would end up at the casino, they would end up at all the strip clubs, they found out that they can go into the pubs and they get drunk and there is dope there's all sorts of things and what happened was that the Chinese parents realize that their children were learning things that were very, very frowned upon in China.

And so they withdraw all of their children and they wanted the teachers to then go back up to China and teach. Therefore the children will be away from all the indulgences and distractions that basically everywhere in our Western society.

Lisa: Right so that's how you ended up going to try not to teach then.

Tim: That's right yes

Lisa: Okay yes yeah it's pretty sad but I'm just going to take you back to when you were talking about Taoism and everything and I'm I'm wondering why do you think the Falun Gong persecuted. Because they believe in a lot of this sort of things that you were talking about and yet they're persecuted.

Tim: They're supposed to be around about 70 million people who have become followers of Falun Gong. What they didn't do is they needed to just keep on growing and keep on growing but the leader wanted to confront the establishment in China. And that's where they made the wrong decision.

They thought that they could use a bit of muscle and start to shift the dynamics of China and they came up very strong against the political apparatus of China. Now had they been more savvy and the guy I think he's still in New York or somewhere in the States who essentially set it all up.

If he said just let it run and just let it work his way in so that all the neighbors in the end would come out of the apartment building and they'd be doing tai chi or chi gong out in the park. That would have then started to extend right across the whole country but he used it as a power play far too early because I think he might have he want to get political.

Lisa: Okay so it was timing really it's like wanting the change that you're talking about but trying to push it when society and the government wasn't ready. So did you see any people doing Tai Chi or whatever in in the parks.

Tim: Not as much only because I was short of time yes but when I was up there but previously in 2003 I did Tai Chi with people in the park.

Lisa: Lovely

Tim: Yes and I've also done a lot of Tai Chi in Taiwan and there as well. When I used to go up so Taiwan so outside outside China these martial arts or these soft martial arts are still here to get the people to be flexible to breathe deep and bring in the Chi. Yes.

Lisa: Right so how do you think having that sort of lifestyle will work with the very high tech China that's the other aspect of it.

Tim: Well it's really interesting because at the moment, China has the fastest computers on earth. They're doing mega billions of computations a second. They've beat America. They're well in advance and was really interesting because when I went up to China the first time this is really I think one of the most interesting stories in 1996 I went to Xi’an and I happened to turn on a TV set and I was watching a TV and showed an airplane I think was PanAm 747 flight landing somewhere in China and the cameras focused on some stairwell being pushed up to this aircraft.

They didn't have air bridges in those days because China was not in the game plan at all. Anyway three suits came out of this 747 Chinese men went up shook hands and they walked down stairs over the tarmac towards where the camera was. And was just focused on these three American men with suits. And then they did a right-hand turn and one had a briefcase and they zoomed in on this briefcase it had the initials IBM. America and IBM had come to China.

And when I was there that particular time in the railway stations that destination systems were so archaic they were so completely dilapidated. Anyway I went back again in 1990 just after Tiananmen Square and they had all modern signs in the airports and so we jumped up now. And then and about 2005 Lenovo, the Chinese corporation, Computer Corporation went and bought IBM's desktop division and took that over. And then finally they've now got the fastest supercomputers on earth.

Lisa: Oh well

Tim: So what it was there the State Department in America would have given IBM the authority to take this technology to China but the State Department were not savvy because as soon as this information came the Chinese would have had at least 10,000 technicians and engineers working 24/7 on it and understanding everything they could about computers.

Now I want to jump across in New Mexico there is the Santos Laboratory and is also the Los Alamos laboratories, two military laboratories each with 9,000 scientists in each working on the defense armaments etc or on GA. So what it is these big military laboratories were are in America same in China. And so the People's Liberation Army would have said right let's put all our people into. They could have had a hundred thousand different Chinese technicians for I know looking at all the ways on how to deal with computers.

Now China at the moment is really really the leader and so it all stemmed possibly from that IBM trip way back in 1996.

Lisa: Oh and I have a Lenovo computer so… and it’s very good.

Tim: Yes well you see and we don't know if there's a backdoor entry to all these computers. We still don't know and this has freaked a lot of Americans out now too because they're buying Lenovos. And so the Chinese could be actually coming through the back door.

Lisa: Oh well

Tim: Yeah there's a lot going on and America has accused China of hacking into so many things particularly a military establishment. And we don't know yet the full story there's a whole new game going and all we have to do is just to make it really clear we've gotta work together. And I I wanted to say one small thing when I was teaching here in New Zealand some young Chinese kids came into her classroom and they said we're ready for America. And I said what do you mean? Oh you know when China's big enough now we can take on America. And i say are you sure?

Yep so I went up to the blackboard and I drew the outline of a nuclear submarine, just an outline and I said in that submarine name is 2020 ballistic missile Basel or launch areas. So that’s 20 missiles in that one submarine and they have eight multiple re-entry nuclear warheads and I says okay eight 20s what does that come to, they worked it out 160 warheads and I says that's just one American nuclear submarine. And they've got something like about 16 of these as well as all of the Bombers and all the the Minutemen sitting in silos up in Montana and God knows what else. I said you're learning English I want you to learn English to go up to an American put your head out shake hands and say hi brother let's see how we can all work together to resolve all the challenges that we have as a humanity if we want to have world peace and we want to have a children have a future and that includes you.

Lisa: Well it's a very good idea. Unfortunately the last couple of days the US has flown into Chinese airspace around the islands in the South China Sea and China is not happy. So in America's sort of thing pupu is not important. Yes we're going to still have to watch American and Chinese relations very very closely. Because the US as it always does is pushing hard.

Tim: Yes it was a difficult the American and military-industrial complex which Eisenhower talked about and which possibly Kennedy wanted to curtail or at least dampen down has stolen the ascendant at the moment. And as I said if it was 31 trillion dollars we just don't know what's going on. All we do know is that citizen diplomacy is the answer. Lisa, we have to as New Zealanders instead of going to all Paris and to London we need to actually go to Moscow and to Beijing and to Shanghai and start communicating with all sorts of people to say right we all share the same breath we all love our children we want a future for everybody that we can really enjoy and go into a light of their own true selves as a global family.

Lisa: We absolutely have to do this or we're not going to survive we're not going to survive the risk of nuclear war we're not going to survive climate change if we don't work together. So the whole idea of people of the world working together is essential for our survival

Tim: So true you see that we're looking at 20% of reforestation throughout China. This is a real big one and they're looking at renewable energy and they say that very shortly up to 20 percent of China's energy is going to come from renewables. When I was at the school in 2003 in a place called Yuyao which is between Ningbo and Hangzhou and for want of a better place to clarify, we had solar hot water systems on all the school buildings. This is in 2003.

And I saw windmills big gigantic windmills when I was there as well and taking over. So what it needs is we need to be really creative and wanting to find ways to reach out and meet all these different peoples of the world and say we've gotta take care of today and tomorrow, for our children and our grandchildren.

Lisa: And in New Zealand I think particularly a lot of New Zealanders are pretty anti-chinese. So I hope that you've listened to the interview with interest because it's not just about all those Chinese coming in and buying our land or you know oh we're selling our water over to China. It's not just about this there's a much bigger picture and it's important that we all get on together.

Tim: I'm in full agreement.

Lisa: Well Tim we're just about at the end of the interview, we've got a little bit more time.

Tim: Oh good

Lisa: What would you really like to say about China, your real most important impressions.

Tim: That in my travels I've found that 85 to 90 percent of the world's population are essentially good people good people. They just want to get on with family have a good job have a holiday have a house and a car and communicate with family members relations etc. and see the world. And so look for good and everybody be prepared to put your hand out and be open to their coming back to you and sharing that’s the first thing. I think also learning a language is important. My Chinese students used to laugh Oh Tim’s going to be Chinglish soon and Chinese and English combined but it's imperative for us to be able to know particular greetings and thank yous and a few other key words prior to us going to a country so that we can set up a good resonance between us and call on the goodness of people.

But also I think it from New Zealand standpoint we need to have a far more broader approach to life. We need to have lots of New Zealanders who are adept at conflict resolution, going out and living with some of these families, hanging out with them.

I don't know what sort of cross cultural ties we have particularly with education and what sort of scholarships we have. I mean we used to have American filled scholarships and I think they still go. We need to have these with China with Russia with in many cases of countries that are in need of just knowing how the other part of the world live. Because I've seen videos of people who have come to live with families in New Zealand and go to school this is the glue that holds our whole global community together as when we are going in with living with a family somewhere else. And we just let the love flow. We really get to an understanding that they're different but they're good.

And if we can find the will to do this the will is required to make that effort, go out of our comfort zone and we come to an understanding that we all share the same breath. We are brothers and sisters and we are a global family.

Lisa: Well I think you've really said it so thank you so much for coming into the studio and talking to me instead of you interviewing somebody else. It's been really lovely and I look forward to listening to this again as I edit.

Tim: Well I thank you Lisa because I don't get the chance to talk. If this is the first time really I'm allowed to get into the flow of things usually I just ask the question because all I'm doing in many ways is giving a platform for somebody to let their light out to share what they wish to offer to the world. And so I can find myself with a very limited expression but you've given me a little bit more rope so this is wonderful and I want to thank you very much for asking me and keeping me on track and see if we can have GreenPlanetFM.com offer up a far greater opportunity for people to come together so that we can make our world the place we want to be.

Lisa: Thank you very much Tim. This interview was sponsored by the Awareness Party.

Tim: PostScript: In understanding China and it’s 500 years of history back through the mists of time we also have to take into account that they also have a mystical dragon that is seemingly a benevolent being that they even incorporated into their 12 yearly astrological moon calendar.

That to the ordinary person who lives on the Western Hemisphere is outside the norm. So there definitely is an enigma as to who and what do the Chinese people offer to the world and where it is going.

So what is China's destiny to the Chinese and the highest echelons of government many of them think it's their time to take a leadership role and even step right out in front as a planetary leader.

What is now being realized is that President Xi Jinping who has just been voted in to take extraordinary power to become the president for life we asked what does this portend especially when we realize the stupendous challenges and difficulties he endured as a young boy all the way through into his thirties.

Yes, a myriad of questions confront such a gigantic country many among them beamed their agreement to the United Nations Agenda 21 and the implementation of the 2030 agenda for sustainable development.

So today with the predominance of CCC TV and biometric identification advancing exponentially coupled to fifth-generation telephone networks, the peoples of the cities of China will need to still have rest and recreation in the rural sector and countryside and parks and also breathing the most freshest and purest of air, drink the most cleanest and vital of water and naturally eat organic food bypassing factory and Industrial food.

So they're huge challenges to surmount, especially equal pay and opportunity for woman and that the Chinese people become self-realized and self-disciplined as they go about their daily life.

For with this dynamic country many possibilities are very ripe for their civilization to become mindful yet creative culturally, yet from a regenerative perspective takes us closer to unity consciousness on a planetary scale whilst retaining their own country's sovereignty.

Yes take a trip to China and see and experience for yourself. You will be amazed.



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Lisa Er

Lisa Er

Born in the UK Lisa emigrated with her parents to New Zealand at the age of 16. Already politically active Lisa has continued to have a passionate interest in peace, politics, and the philosophy behind what we do.

A primary school teacher for 14 years, Lisa then turned her hand to business and created the well known Lisa's Hummus, which she sold a few years ago. Now Lisa is immersed in creating a better political system via www.theawarenessparty.com