David Holden & Bruce Lipton: Changing our mind and belief systems, plus new natural science and methods

Interviewed by

Tim Lynch

David Holden & Bruce Lipton: Changing our mind and belief systems, plus new natural science and methods

This interview is all to do with the International Holistic Cancer Symposium here in New Zealand in March 24th & 25th 2018, NOW AT QUALITY HOTEL PARNELL, 20 GLADSTONE ROAD, PARNELL Auckland.

Right from the start both of these very articulate communicators share their knowingness as to the challenges and opportunities to heal what is becoming the affliction of the human race. Cancer!

What I like about them is that ever since knowing them - they have been focusing on encouraging us to see our body in a new light - to see that we need not be a victim of our genetic make up and that when we look beyond, into the quantum levels of the subatomic realms - new possibilities come into being.

This requires a shift in awareness, in consciousness - that we are energy fields in a localised planetary field that is embedded in a universal energy field - is opening up new vistas of not only health and healing, but living, our philosophy in life and indeed - our cosmology.

If perhaps you are aware of what’s happening in the realm of health and healing, there are some exceptionally unique perspectives being offered.

Speakers at this symposium include leaders in their particular fields, from the United States, Australia and New Zealand:, Jack Tips ND PhD, Dr Allan Frankel MD, Ty Bollinger, Glen Gillard ND, Greg Fredericks NMD, Dr Robin Kelly MD, Prof Bill Watson, Katherine Smith, Jon Eisen and Kim Knight.

The International Holistic Cancer Symposium (IHCS) is a regular conference organized by health professionals, the purpose being to share scientific evidence-based research on cancer prevention, treatment, management and support, and providing knowledge that encompasses treating the whole person, not just cancer tumours. It is a resource for all those who are interested in an evidence-based holistic approach to cancer.

The IHCS is for Governmental Agencies, Medical, Allied and CAM health practitioners, Cancer Support Organisations and Cancer NGO’s and Cancer patient lobby groups.

For more information:


This video is at the radio station studio - of David & Bruce being interviewed, by Tim

This one is of Bruce Lipton.



Download the whole transcription here.


Tim: In the studio this morning I have Bruce Lipton and David Holden.

Bruce comes from the United States where he has spent a lot of his time looking at a cellular structure, is a quantum biologist as he is now looking at being able to bridge the gap between science and spirit.

And I have also David Holden. David is a natural medicine in natural therapies practitioner, he's been close on 30 years in this country working with the natural ways to be able to bring good health to our being and as this is all part of the International Holistic Cancer Symposium that’s going to be here in Auckland on the 24th and 25th of March.

You've gathered here this morning to be able to hear some other leading-edge means of being able to cure cancer but also to look at how’s it that we've become a ‘cancer society’ and that’s increasing hugely, 38% of the human population could end up with cancer on the latest statistics.

So we need to heal human race and we also realize that we are energy fields in a greater Universal energy field. This is important because we've got to actually lift ourselves out of a cellular world into a higher frequency of existence.

So David thank you, would you like to share the audience what's going to happen and what you want to be able to achieve.

David: Sure, this is the third event of this topic put on an Auckland over eight years and Bruce has been the keynote speaker at each one and we're so privileged to have Bruce here with a man of such incredible knowledge and wisdom to share in this particular area around holistic cancer and statistics reporting.

As you said before the WHO says that by 2021, one in two people in the West will die of cancer not with it, of it. That's pretty serious and so what we're wanting to do is to bridge that, lower those numbers, get more information out to the people that need it, to show that they can control their own destiny, so we have other options other than the standard burn-cut-and-poison or chemotherapy, radiotherapy, surgery approach of orthodox medicine. Not to say that doesn't have a place. It does but it's a very small place.

Chemotherapy is overused like antibiotics and steroids by medicine because they're not aware of other options around nutrition, mind-body medicine, meditation, mindfulness, lifestyle medicine, which Ian Gawler has really promoted a lot over the years, and Ian was a keynote speaker to the two of our previous conferences, he's now retired and so what I've done is I've picked some of the best brains in the States, Australia, and New Zealand, brought them all together over a weekend to talk about what we can do as human beings on this planet to change the direction of cancer and its history in the world.

And because still the vast majority of medical institutions particularly in New Zealand in Australia, less so in the States and Europe are not teaching their doctors about nutrition. They're not teaching their doctors about epigenetics. They're not teaching their doctors about the mind-body connection in health and this is of a concern, because Bruce's work particularly talks about the impact of that and how we can effectively change genic expression. And so you look at one of the notables Dr. Ralph Moss PhD did a meta-analysis that's a study of all the main research papers done on chemotherapy and cancer to account how successful is cancer.

Okay what's the percentages? Well have a guess what the percentage of success just using chemotherapy is across the board with all types of cancer have a guess what the number is.

Tim: I don't know, seven percent?

David: Go down. Yeah. It's appalling it's 2.1% in the United States and 2.3% percent in Australia, that's over a five-year analysis done in the 90’s and the figures haven't changed that much.

There's a few notable areas where research has improved with a new immunotherapy drugs like keep true to melanoma is making a massive difference I personally have six patients that would be underground pushing up daisies now if it wasn't for Keith Reuter.

But the problem is chemotherapy is devastating the immune system and it's been totally overused and we've got to stop doing it and that's why I pulled together this range of speakers.

This is the biggest event we've ever done at the AUT we're expecting 350 to 400 delegates health practitioners. Unfortunately, the ones that need to be there probably won't be medical oncologists, medical radiologists. However my job after the event is to distribute the information to those people put it in front of them, then they have a choice to start to read and understand it or not.

All we can do is take the horse to water, they're the ones that have to drink. So we have some very, very notable speakers, Bruce of course, you're gonna hear about very shortly who's the keynote speaker. You also have Dr. Jack Tips who's a very well-known naturopathic physician homeopaths a nutritionist from Austin Texas personal friend of mine are brought to New Zealand three times before.

He is coming flying in especially for the event and he has some very interesting new information on viruses and cancer which he wants to share.

We also have Dr. Greg Fredericks who's written this wonderful document and integrative oncology guide to cancer and he's doing a study and has written a book on all the suppressed cancer cures throughout history.

The doctors behind it why it was suppressed, the science behind their remedies and how they work, and the science showing that they do actually work and doctors need to be aware of these suppressed cures.

We've also got Glenn Gillard, a naturopath friend of mine I've known for thirty years in Australia, he’s known as the naturopath gadget man and he's using induction coils, rife frequencies, a whole range of electronics to help restore immune confidence with patients that have weakened immune system after conventional therapies or just because they're mind-body connection isn't working properly and he helps restore that consciousness with them.

We also have Katherine Smith who's going to be talking about the effect of electromagnetic fields all these electronics that surround us every day how they're impacting particularly brain cancers.

Tim: Yes I agree.

David: and what we can do to protect ourselves against those EMF because it's getting worse not better. I mean how many devices do you have at home now compared to what you had ten years ago. Most of us have got a lot more devices were saturated and swimming and bathing in EMF that we weren't.. that was zero two hundred years ago.

Tim: Wait until G5 comes out.

David: Exactly yeah that's a concern and then we've got John Eisen who's gonna share his personal story with cancer and how he reversed it using natural medicine which will be very very interesting. I've also in between some of the speakers I've selected four cancer patients of mine who survived cancer they're gonna share their stories of what they did.

We've also got Kim Knight who's a mind-body practitioner who's gonna talk about the emotional intelligence behind breast cancer particularly. Very emotional disease for women and she's gonna talk about that from a woman's perspective which will be fascinating.

We've got Professor Bill Watson he’s gonna be talking about oxygen debt and the nagalase enzyme and GC MAF and a whole range of other aspects of cancer treatments all science-based and there are other speakers as well. It’s a very very detailed two-day intensive for the practitioners that will be turning up and you can find out more by going onto the website Holistic CancerSymposium.com HolisticCancerSymposium.com.

Tim: And that's going to be on the 24th and 25th of March.

David: In Auckland at the AUT.



Tim: Very good. Now you're going to introduce Bruce to get his particular inside. Sure. So I allow you.

David: Thank you, well I've had the pleasure of knowing this wonderful man for must be 7-8 years now and Bruce and I become good friends and I'm fascinated in his take and he's given me a little preview before this interview about the topic he's gonna be talking on this conference.

Bruce has an astounding array of knowledge around Epigenetics - the mind-body connection and how science and spirit does dovetail. He's gonna take that to a whole new level with his talk so I urge people to come and hear what Bruce has to say, so I'll let Bruce speak for himself.

Bruce: Well I want to thank you both for letting me be here and for this program which i think is the most important understanding that's necessary for the public and there's a simple reason and that is I used to teach in the medical school and I taught the conventional story how genes control life genes turn on and off and what I needed to tell you is that while I was teaching in a medical school is also doing research on stem cells.

This is actually my 50th anniversary of my stem cell research so it's not new stuff but it was pioneering. It was pioneering because back at that time as I said I was teaching medical doctors about the fact that genes control life, and I said but what does this mean to the public when you teach something like that? And I said well the first thing it means is this your life is not under your control, your life is under the control of your heredity, what genes you inherited from other people.

So we are given a belief that the genes that we inherit are like blueprints for the rest of our life and therefore whatever kinds of good genes great, but whatever kinds of bad genes, oh my God. Now we have like I'm a walking time bomb, that gene is gonna turn on or off and my whole life is gonna go upside down.

Well I said well what is that relevant to all of us in this planet and the relevance is this if you understand that as a belief then what you're saying is this you are a victim of your heredity that genes control you, you don't control the genes, you didn't pick the genes, you don't want the genes, you can't change the genes, and all of a sudden says oh my God my life is not under my control I'm a victim.

There's a couple of consequences that just have beliefs and the first thing is this you give up power. If I'm a victim then I'm saying I have no power and therefore that enhances your victimness. But then and here's the other side when you feel you have no power then you will seek a rescuer and you will pay that rescuer whatever dear dollars you have to give you your life back.

And of course who steps into this void is the pharmaceutical industry that says your body is a machine you have nothing to do with it but we've made parts and if you buy our parts you can have a great machine.

Well this is all wrong, the entire belief system is entirely wrong as I found out doing my stem-cell research and what the stem-cell research revolved around is that if I put one stem cell which is an embryonic cell that's just another name for it. One cell in a petri dish and it divides every 10 hours versus one then 2, 4, 6, 8 doubling doubling doubling a week later I've got 30,000 cells in the petri plate.

The most important point about it is that they're all genetically identical because they came from the same primals one cell and then I say okay so I split the thirty thousand cells into three petri dishes, so I have three dishes genetically identical cells on all of them, and then when you grow cells in a laboratory you grow them and something called culture medium and okay what's that and I go it's the equivalent of blood.

So if I want to grow human cells I look at the composition of human blood and synthesize a version of that called culture medium. I grow mouse cells I look at mouse blood composition and likewise creative. So here's the point I create the culture medium which is equivalent of blood and I can change the chemistry so I made three different versions of culture medium almost identical but slightly different chemistry and I feed the dishes and dish A environment A culture medium A the cells form muscle.

In the second dish was the slightly different environment a different culture medium B the cells form bone and in a third dish again with a different composition of culture medium the cells form fat cells and I was so …. looking at this and going oh my God the genes don't control the expression of the cell because they all have the same genes.

That the control of the cell was from the environment, the cell was adapting or adjusting its biology to the environment it was like oh my gosh here I am teaching medical students genes turn on and off and it turns out that is a false statement.

Genes have no activity and and think about it because every one of us thinks that genes are controlling us, and I go a gene is the equivalent of a blueprint, period.

I say you go into an architect's office she's working on a blueprint and you ask her “is your blueprint on or off?” and she'll look at you and go “ what are you crazy? it's a blueprint!” And I go precisely, exactly this is the most important point.

Your genes are blueprints and as blueprints cannot turn themselves on and off, they're just blueprints. The more important question is and who reads the blueprint, who pulls up the blueprints, who can change the blueprints and the answer is our nervous system is the primary control.

You say how did that connection and I go very simply this, it was the chemical composition of the culture median that determined the fate of the cells so might the next question of course is then what controls the chemical composition of the culture medium the blood? I said “Oh your blood is controlled by your nervous system”.

The composition when the nervous system releases hormones and neurochemicals to regulate up and down the functions. And so the chemistry coming from the brain goes into the blood, the blood is the culture medium and inside under our skin we have fifty trillion cells so we're like a skin covered petri dish and inside the culture medium is controlling the fate of the cells just like it did in the plastic dish.

And then I said yeah but it was the composition of the culture medium and now finally come to the most important understanding in the world is okay cells are responding the chemistry in the culture medium the chemistry and the culture medium is controlled by the nervous system. And then the most important question and the whole world comes down to well what chemicals should the brain put into the blood and here comes the oh my gosh answer and that is this - whatever picture is being held in your mind the picture is translated by the brain into chemistry.

Most of us when we were young played with something called paint-by-numbers where you start with an outline of a picture with black and white and color numbers are put into the little spaces and then there's a paint set where each color has a number and you take that number fill in the spots and then you create voila this beautiful picture. The simplified, it goes like this, the system works like paint-by-numbers in reverse meaning first you start with the picture in your head and then the brain breaks it down into numbers but those numbers represent neuro chemicals and regulatory hormones. Then I say and then they're released into the blood and then that goes and paints your cells to match the image that was in your mind and all the sense of oh my gosh if you change your mind you change your chemistry.

I go a hundred percent so for example if you're there now and your eyes are closed and you open your eyes and you see someone your love I said well what's happening in your chemistry I go oh a picture of love releases some very specific chemistry totally associated with love including dopamine for pleasure and that's why you fall in love. You feel the pleasures chemistry. It releases oxytocin, that's a chemical that bonds you to that love source to keep you in that that high and more importantly when you're in love and you see a picture of love in your mind, your brain releases into the culture medium the blood growth hormone which does what it does.

And I say what does that mean, I say look everyone sees someone in love and they go oh look how they glow, see how healthy they are, it’s not an accident. This is a result of direct chemistry from the mind being translated by the brain put into the culture medium blood and adjusting the genetics and behavior of the cells. This is a new science.

When I started this 50 years ago it wasn't even a science but now it's called epigenetics and you know what does that mean. It sounds like genetics. I don't know here when I say genetic control which is what almost everybody out there and the audience has learned that means control by genes that's where the belief comes from the gene cause this a gene cause that. The new science is called epigenetics and so epigenetic control is a revolution but he sounds the same I go no no here's the difference epi means above so when you say epigenetic control you're saying literally control above the genes.

Oh my God, the control is not in the genes, it's coming from the vision in your mind. And I go yeah but if you ask somebody who's sick you say you got a picture of being sick in your mind I go well there's where the problem comes from. There are two minds and they are interdependent. There's the conscious mind connected to your personal identity and through quantum physics we now know connected to an energy field which in other terms is defined exactly a spirit energy field but in quantum physics field and so we have this mind as connected to the System. Okay and once we start to recognize this then we start to recognize wait I am making a picture with my conscious mind that's called the mind which wishes and desires that's the - that's all I want to be healthy I wanna have a great life, I want I have great romance, I want a great job...that's wishes and desires - conscious mind.

The second mind is the autopilot mind and it's called subconscious. I go what do you mean an autopilot. I say well everything you have learned how to do, walking, talking, riding a bicycle, driving a car, mathematics, I don't care whatever it is you've learned it becomes a program in the subconscious.

And I said well why is this relevant I said well if you were running your life with your conscious mind then by definition you would be sending chemistry into your body of pictures of success health happiness and then I have to tell the sad news and that is only 5% of our cognitive activity is coming from the conscious mind. I said well why so little and the answer is this. Imagine your body is a vehicle in your conscious minds behind the wheel driving and I go this is really cool and I'm driving wherever the conscious mind wants to take me - success, health, great I go this way.

Cool, but then I say, but what if the conscious mind does what I really can do and that is think. You know what do you mean, I said well thinking. I said well what happens when you're thinking I say the first thing is this by definition when you're thinking your direction of your conscious mind is focused inward. Like if I said so what are you doing next week at this time the answer isn't written on the floor, the walls are anywhere the answers, inside your head so if you're gonna think about the answer then by definition your conscious mind stops looking outside of where the vehicle is going, let's go with the wheel goes inside to have thought and while the conscious is not driving the autopilot, subconscious kicks in and drives whatever program you got. Now here's where the problem comes from.

The training and the programming occurs during the first seven years and we get the programs by observing father, mother, family, and community and download their behavior. So here's the point, 5% of the day conscious minds controlling us and going exactly where our wishes and desires and aspirations want to go, 5%. But 95% the day science has recognized were in thought thinking about tomorrow, yesterday, last week, future whatever and I say well there is a problem because if you're in thought 95% of the day, then your life is not being controlled by your wishes and desires, your life is controlled by your program that you got in the first seven years.

And I know why is this relevant because the programs came from other people, they don't answer your wishes and your desires, you're just replaying other people's behavior. And 70% of those behaviors are disempowering, self sabotaging and limiting beliefs. “Who do you think you are”, “you don't deserve that these” are the things we…”you’re not good enough” “you can do better” and these are the programs that what happened in the first seven years.

So if I say if all of a sudden I switch from I'm looking for happiness and joy and health and I switch and I'm now thinking it my subconscious kicks in what's it saying yeah you're not good enough you don't deserve this, who do you think you are, and all of a sudden I go oh my God that behavior, it's gonna sabotage me. Now I need to just clear this up so that people really get it. ‘Cause you say well obviously I'd be aware if I was playing programs that were sabotaging me and I go not really and here's why. The focus of the conscious mind is on the inside and so it doesn't observe what you're doing on the outside and I've given this story.

And Tim, I've been on this show a couple of times, same story because there's no better story to explain this than the following. You have a friend, you know your friend’s behavior very very well and you happen to know your friend's parent and one day you see your friend has this same behavior as a parent you know and just excites you. You want to tell your friend so you go hey Bill you're just like your dad, back away from Bill. Bill is immediately gonna go ballistic, huh dad I'm nothing like my dad, most everyone laughs because it's like oh yeah I've seen that around and I go what does this represent? Everybody else can see that though Bill behaves like his dad. The only one who doesn't see it is Bill. Yeah I go well okay okay everybody hold on wherever you are hold on, we are all Bill.

Every one of us is doing the exact thing same thing as Bill. When we are thinking, we are defaulting to subconscious. The subconscious has programmed said or 70% disempowering and sabotaging but while we're playing those programs we are the only ones that don't see it so if you're sabotaging yourself what you see is the result. By God it didn't work you know in the conscious minds now totally confused because I wanted to succeed and it didn't work and it's...

David: Like a veil comes down and you're unaware.

Bruce: ...if you're unaware you know but here's a joke part because some people catch it as they're just coming out of thinking they're catching the tail end of the automatic behavior and at that moment in chagrin is like oh my God I was just acting like my dad.

The fact was you were playing that program the entire time and I want people to understand is this, a new understanding of science. Now listen the Jesuits for 400 years have acknowledged what science has just recognized and that is this, the Jesuit said give me a child until it's seven and I will show you the man what they knew was whatever programming we got before seven, 95% of that person's life is going to be exactly that program. So you can predict what the outcome is going to be. And where this applies to cancer here's a great truth.

They followed the fate of children adopted into families where cancer was running in the family and it turns out the adopted child whether was an infant one was brought in the adopted infant will have the same probability of getting the family cancer as any of the natural siblings but then you have to step back and go wait the child came from totally different genetics Yes. And all of a sudden it sounds like well then how did it follow in the lineage and the answer as we're finding out right now. Number one the very important point, less than 1% of disease is due to genetics. That's a fact of science.

I go holy gosh why is that important law said whether whether you're 90% of disease coming from if isn't from genetics and answer ís lifestyle and environment and belief and I go well you know what's so important in the old story of genetics you were a victim. Why? The genes control you, you don't control the genes. The new story of epigenetics turns that upside down and says wait a minute the genes are controlled by your environment, your perception, and your lifestyle. I go oh I can change any of those and also sounds like huh well if you can change those then you can change your life genetically.

And it turns out in eight hours of changing of belief, eight hours of meditation, genes can change in eight hours.

David: Wow!

Bruce: And the relevance about that is another one system people understand, identical twins. When they're born virtually have the same genetics, identical genetics. But if you read the gene readout which is a gene chip and you read the readout. That you read it and the firstborn they're almost identical gene readout. But you come back and read it a year later, five years later, ten years later, 20 years later, every year of life the genetic readout diverges and it changes. They started out identical and you say how far can it diverge.

One identical twin can have a healthy happy life their entire 90 plus hundred years and the other one could die of cancer at 40. I say yeah but they came with the same exact identical genetic so I go because it's not the genes it’s how we exercise or express the genes.

And why this conference becomes so critical is our belief system has been skewed by the belief of victim when in fact we are masters. But no one taught us and if you have no knowledge you have no power. And we're in an era of upending what was conventional knowledge. And there's new quantum physics which first of all expresses the role of invisible energy in shaping all of this. And epigenetics which recognizes you are in absolute control of your genetics and of your life. And that takes us from victim to master but knowledge, knowledge is power.

And here's the corollary that it's more important, a lack of knowledge is a lack of power. We have been systematically deprived of empowering knowledge especially with the pursuit of the pharmaceutical industry which only gets power by you having power over you. And if you have power over the system you won't need pharmaceutical drugs and then they know that. Yeah and the information I've been talking about which is absolute solid science from foundation of is very difficult to see in a medical school. Because the curriculum is overseeing in a large part by the money of the pharmaceutical industry

And so the idea of energy healing which has been known scientifically since 1930, there are papers that all mainstream journals have started in 1930 and where are they today well they're I have all publications about how electromagnetic fields, a very precise frequencies can turn on and off DNA synthesis which makes cells divide or not, I can turn off on and off differentiation if it's an embryonic cell and in other words every function of the cell has been recognized to be controlled by electromagnetic fields. The primary electromagnetic fields are derived from your own nervous system that's how it works. Your nervous system takes your consciousness and turns it into electromagnetic fields which in turn are controlling genetics and behavior.

And this becomes so critical for the audience that needs to show up at this conference because without this knowledge, you are disempowered.Yes and we're only a victim, a victim of a lack of knowledge. And this conference is profoundly important it says I, I think it's time for people to get their power back. Yes and I don't want to knock the medical profession, I was a professor in a medical school I was in University of Wisconsin Stanford University School of Medicine doing work.

Okay so medicine let me just clearly state this, medicine does miracles with trauma. If I get in a car accident I'm not calling on a natural path to help me or a chiropractor or a massage therapist I'm getting that medical surgeon. But here I was another fact when it comes to non trauma cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease we now know that 90% or more of everything that I just mentioned in that list is due to the consciousness and the lifestyle in the environment. And yet we in the allopathic community, so look, has a breakdown in the cell is broken, it's stupid and we're gonna put some drugs in there and fix eval panics. That's Newtonian mechanics and it turns out that's the failure of the system.

So medicine does miracles with trauma but when it comes to causes of cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's and all these other things they're absolutely failing tremendously. The more money they put in the system the worth the health crisis is becoming. So it's not the idea that we don't make an effort but you're putting the effort into trying to look at a broken cell. When it turns out the cells aren't broken, they're just becoming a complement to the picture. It's the picture that needs readjusting not the physical biology. But that's a knowledge, that's a consciousness.

This is why this conference becomes important. You as a conventional person in the audience has been programmed with genes controlling your life which then makes you of course that victim and I'm trying to tell you the newest science from epigenetics to quantum physics reverses an entire thing right and says less than 1% of diseases due to genetics.

David: It gives back our power and helps us control our own destiny doesn't it and this shows the importance of meditation and mindfulness in changing that reality in a subconscious.

Bruce: Oh absolutely. So there's a level of I said from the nervous system input there's a level from the chemistry when I make culture medium. Here's a simple fact, I'm making the equivalent of blood in a laboratory that... let me give you a simple fact, I don't buy my ingredients at Kmart. I buy the best ingredients in the world to make culture meeting because if I just put one you know less quality ingredient in when I feed the cells within minutes I can see them respond. Yeah and they're very unhappy so I'm just saying well culture medium is equivalent of blood and therefore I said yeah but you're making blood. I said what chemical nutritional elements are you making that blood web or the building blocks. The building blocks and all of a sudden you realize oh my God well nutrition becomes a major part of this as well. So we have consciousness we have nutrition and these are issues that David I really believe that the people that you are bringing to this to conference to present will be addressing these topics.

David: But isn't it sad Bruce because you've been a professor of medicine you've taught in medical school the doctors aren't taught anything about nutrition. I mean I get three hours in six years of training on nutrition three hours yeah and if they miss those lectures that I have to resit them it's crazy where's the naturopath does a minimum of two years training in nutrition if I get less than 70% in the finals they have to redo the entire course.

Bruce: Right well again this is... there is a whole power control over health yeah it's an industry and unfortunately I was in that industry without knowing it I was participating and I didn't realize the nature of the industry. I’ll give you an example.

Tim: I'm speaking with Bruce Lipton PhD, a quantum biologist and an internationally recognized leader in bridging science and spirit. He is also best-selling author of the Biology of Belief and Spontaneous Evolution. He is talking of New Zealand's David Holden who has had 30 years of natural medicine specializing in naturopathic oncology neurology and endocrinology and they are going to be presenting at the International Holistic Cancer Symposium here in New Zealand on March 24th and 25th at Auckland University of Technology (AUT) and for more information the website is HolisticCancerSymposium.com…

Bruce: And I give you an example if I'm...do they say Clark here instead of Clerk? Clerk. I'm a Clerk at the bank ok you are saying good look what I'm helping people in the community they're putting money away they're making safety and all that so I am helping the bank is helping people and I say go up about four floors today how much money we make today.

They're not interested in you, they're interested what the final line is, but that's a corporation and corporations by law that is the most important line. What they say all is profit... All right so if I have a health corporation and I'm not making a profit I'm violating the government regulations okay.

And then oh my God now you got me on this I have to finish it now how how does a health corporation make a profit oh well they charge more than the services are worth of course I know but wait a minute that means a person's already down and out you're taking that person more money out of them you're already are suffering.

Two-thirds of the bankruptcies in the United States which means you lose your house, you lose your savings, and everything. Two-thirds are because of medical bills. It is it is because you get you know they said today how many Americans can afford to go to emergency room for a thousand dollar bill which we walk in the emergency room is five hundred bucks right there. Okay and they said more than two thirds of the population cannot afford at this moment a thousand dollars for health care. And that is just a walk into the Emergency Room. So the reality is they're making a lot of money.

And then I said what, why is it irrelevant so let's simplify it. There's a common root to the word human humane humanity. It's a common root word is compassion. So I then I step back and say is the medical profession which includes the hospitals and the schools and all that, are they compassionate entities? And I go well not that when you consider they're gonna suck the blood out of you when you get sick. I said well they're they're not compassionate absolutely. They're I don't care about as long as you can pay the bill.

I mean you say you probably have seen some of the videos in the US where a poor person gets into a hospital and the hospital does its best to get them back on their feet so they can walk and then take a patient carrying a their drip bottle so you know a little rolling thing right they put them in a taxicab and they pay the taxi driver drop this person off in the middle of a bad part of town and as you see people get out of a cab in a hospital gown walking down the street pulling their little drip bottle with them and the reason is why they don't want that free patient in the hospital they didn't know if they said okay you can go out and they put they even paid for the cab ‘cause it’s cheaper than keeping them in a hospital.

So I'm looking at this profession I'm going it's not the doctors it's not the doctors especially not the nurses day that's where more the healing comes from anyway exactly and so the simple reality is this we're not condemning medical doctors, we're condemning Medical Corporations yes the system the system the doctors are caught in the middle. They came into the system like oh I'm gonna be a healer teaching their first semester so I see them come in just busting with excitement and I'm going to medical school and then I'd see my same class four years later. And all they're saying get me the hell out of this place get me out of here, they can't take anymore they're in debt they're drowning in debt and all of this stuff. And then they get out and guess what they can't practice what they need to practice, they practice according what a standard convention.

And I go starting a convention what does that mean? I say give them something even if it's useless, 15-minute constant a fifteen minute and that's a long time. And I said well you know what when was the medical profession actually helpful and I go back to the days when they only had family physicians. Right. Because the family physician knew what the family was doing lifestyle they saw the community and they worked with an understanding you are an expression of how you fit in this community and they were working and they were helping yeah but the more we pulled away from the story right the more we pulled away from the personal life yeah all of a sudden it's like what do you want machine it's just like you brought your Toyota in it's got oh that's the year Toyota here's the part number you know boom put the part in there it's like where's the person yeah yeah and it's gone and the healing has gone out the window.

David: Bruce, I like the Chinese system the old Chinese system where the village healer would be paid on a monthly basis by all the villagers to stay well as soon as they got sick they stopped paying the healer, they had a huge incentive to keep those people well that is a good system.

Bruce: Yeah absolutely holding barefoot doctors to correct yes yeah yeah and they were totally involved in education. Teaching the people how to eat right, how to live right, how to think right, how to exercise Tai Chi Chi-gong (Qigong), eating herbs as part of their natural diet to help stave off disease and conditions that were rampant in that particular area. Smart, smart medicine, very smart medicine.

Absolutely and is now a return to smart medicine time because we've taken that mechanical industrial medicine to this limit. I say so how effective are they. Diseases were rampant now than it was working on it so I really have to say we knew. You know there was a comedian I remember he said, “the older I get the smarter my father becomes”. Why is this relevant because there was a father of medicine and yet we disregarded that father of medicine and we became chemists and we became genetic engineers and all that stuff. And we pushed that to this limit, to this moment of planetary health crisis. And now we look back and go, oh my God the original fathers of medicine they already knew the answer. And we must go back and recognize we are part of an environment. And if we separate from that environment it's not the cost of health and this becomes important enough.

I'll close with one last thing, it to me is so important, a friend of mine Anita Moorjani, she wrote a book called Dying To Be Me. She had cancer I forgot was ten years with an oncologist ten years of being treated by an oncologist for her cancer or whatever number of years and it was her oncologist’s view she was in her last week of life because her system shut down she was so emaciated that the lumps of cancer were sticking out through her skin. She was on machines and then she went into a coma so the doctor called the family and said listen Anita's in a coma and that's the last stage of my cancer patients before they died. Anita had an out-of-body experience, a spiritual connection with her father where the issues of her life were created resolved that psychologically during this out-of-body experience.

David: Wow.

Bruce: And resolve that stress which was a belief and was like most people have those out-of-body experiences like well you have a choice you can go back in your body or you can stay here where she was like “oh my God this is so great out here” but she saw her husband Danny holding on to her hand while she was in a coma and she thought if I die he's gonna get sick. So she said I'm gonna go back, she got back and guess what, the moment she came out of the coma she didn't need the machines anymore. She was free of life support system.

Within two weeks the cancer had disappeared and within four weeks the doctors with every test possible were saying there's a cancer in there somewhere they studied it for all these years they couldn't find it and she told them there is no cancer in my body. And if she has now been talking like then she wrote that book and she's the most wonderful person. She's my example of the poster child of biology beliefs.

David: I must read that.

Bruce: It’s most exciting story because it reveals she got down to the very edge of death, she was on her deathbed full-out cancer and it came back with a different belief and the cancer radically disappeared and this is not a misdiagnosis, their years of oncology right right and it's like that's how far can you go the answer was to the point she was on support machines unconscious in her last hours last hours just changed their belief and woke up on the on the healing.

David: What's the name of the book of the author again? “Dying To Be Me” by Anita Moorjani. It was a classic best-selling book in United States for a long time and I really hope that people dealing with cancer look at this I said look you could go to the very last breath essentially and if you change your belief at that moment it comes right back.

David: Wow that's fascinating absolutely fascinating and then that step proves the point of the whole mind-body connection and this is a big part of natural medicine and naturopathic oncology and many of our speakers are talking just specifically about that subject at the symposium.

Tim: It's very interesting what you said Bruce because if we follow the information at Masaru Emoto a Japanese professor yes when he said he could take photographs of the thoughts of people directed at a glass of water that was in frozen as a crystal and if they were a positive thought they were all be very…found they’d be beautiful crystals of... On gratitude yeah that's right...and if they were negative and hateful it was a very convoluted dark crystal so there's another verification as an energy field.

Bruce: And water is an energy absorbs energy and alters its structure based on the energy available to it and the energy is communicated from water molecule water molecule which is now understood there's a foundation for homeopathy yes it says I don’t need the chemistry I just need the energy of the chemistry what water has the once the energies in the water it will change the character of the water as Emoto yeah as soon it was proven.

Tim: Yeah well that means that Aucklanders which take 10% of the water out of a Waikato River and they've got a catchment area of a huge area where all these chemicals from farms are going to leech into the water. So if they’re coming through the water and the people's mouths and babies in particular. Yeah so we're gonna have a look at this and another thing that I want to really discuss shortly anyway is that babies and children brought into the world as they're brought into a loving family and and the family is conscious and that the family have a good choice of vocabulary and vernacular the kiddies will actually get a good program for want of a better word yes if children have been brought up today who has come from broken families and they're watching all the crap under the sun on TV in God knows what else the children are getting a very convoluted and a horrible person ...

David: Distorted picture of the world

Tim: Yeah and so consequently they're going to see more and cancer can find that root and destroy their lives but if we are going to be really really mindful of how we bring children into the world yes and what sport patterns yes that we end up is it's the key

Bruce: Yeah I want to tell you that that's the root of all of the problems as I said to the first seven years the subconscious is learning programs so that we can use those programs when we become conscious. The first seven years a child's not even in consciousness their brain activities primarily and I wouldn't put wires on a person's head electroencephalogram EEG their brain activities below alpha which is consciousness fada which is actually hypnosis.

So the idea is the first programs put into child aren't created by the child they're copied from what's going on in the environment around them the parents so if a parent has a negative behavior the child is just recording that and will have the exact same behavior so that's how children end up being much like their parents.

Like yeah people like you know the jokey part if I was like oh a musician famous musician has a child who becomes a good great musician and they go must be in the genes and I go don't was never in the genes that was the child grew up in an environment yes learning the music as a breeze that was learning music became a musician. We become programmed and we understand that and we as adults should look back and recognize if our parents had no understanding of this and their programs weren't that good then by definition when we're not paying attention 95% of the day we we're probably playing those very same programs precisely. And if that program leads to cardiac problems heart attacks or it leads to diabetes we will unconsciously play that program and become diabetic and get a heart attack and then go oh yes it's the genes running in the family. I said no no it was the programming running in the family.

And that's why you Tim is so important as you said the most when the heck does the programming start and the answer is in utero in the last trimester of pregnancy the brain is already recording. I say what do you mean I go look you could play music through the abdominal wall while the fetus is developing and then when the baby is born you put that music on the baby immediately tuned into that music. Because it knows that where the father could talk to the fetus through the abdominal wall and when that baby is born and the father opens his mouth the fetus will I mean now it's just point the baby will know which one the father is just because the memory of the voice in utero.

So it's like yep we were already recording starting in utero and for the first seven years and if your life is not working the way you want it to work whether it's the cancer or whether it's diabetes cardiovascular disease or unhappiness or you know not finding relationships these are the consequences of behavior. And if so if your program wasn't good your struggles in life are not coming because the universe doesn't want to give you something you're struggles in life are coming because you're playing programs that do not support you.

David: Exactly and can I say to the audience if you want to find out more about this do get a copy of Bruce's first book the Biology of Belief particularly the 10th edition that you wrote last year. You go into this in a lot more detail and there's some great video clips of Bruce talking a lot more about this on his website brucelipton.com so check it out have a look.

Tim: Very important to get up speed on this there's another thing too in many ways as the discipline of the mind and and having meditation because I know that even today in my meditations I can find myself wavering and all of a sudden my mind goes off course and so we need to be always just straight up and down and I'd like you to talk about a disciplined mind and particularly starting with teenagers at that particular level too because that's when I really get distracted

Bruce: Yes yeah well they get distracted then because there's a driver they become self-aware when a child is below a certain age it's not self-aware. It's just looking out its eyes and the world is coming in it doesn't realize their participation until they get to a certain level. But then when you get to that level of participation all of a sudden they get that you know that teenage he kind of thing he says yeah but I want to participate differently. And that's where you know where all the sudden kids start doing something out of the ordinary only because they're just challenging the structure you know what the interesting part is they may be just like that as teenagers but as soon as they get to a certain age they're gonna be just like their parents.

Anyway because that point everything is set, it's 95% of your life, that's it. You are that person and the whole idea about it is this biology. I'm talking about is scientifically, the biology of how your thought is creating your internal environment and your external experience and your last interesting that's a new agey biology and i go it is in step with the most valid science on this planet, the most valid science, the science with more truth than any other science on this planet is quantum physics. There is no science proven to be more truthful and I go relevance is that I just say the first premise quantum physics from 1925 is consciousness is creating our life experience and now biology is stepped in to show the conversion of a conscious thought into chemistry affecting the physical body and all of a sudden that's called epigenetics so quantum physics and epigenetics are the new leading-edge science and both of them say exactly the same thing.

We are not victims of a biology, we are masters of our genes and our behavior and if you don't like the way it's working it's time for a driver education

David: Yes yes love it as two things I need to mention before we wrap it up there's two other speakers I haven't mentioned that are speaking one of them is very relevant because New Zealand's just passed a law to legalize medicinal cannabis and on my sabbatical to the States in July, I met with and sat in the clinic of Dr. Allan Frankel in Santa Monica. This man is an eight-year expert in dosed cannabis medicine, he won't be in person, he'll be on the big screen live from LA talking at the conference about the power of medicinal cannabis and cancer specifically and what it can do. And he's got a big message for New Zealand about taking this big step to legalize as a powerful medicine.

The other speaker is very well known probably to your audience Ty Bollinger who did the DVD series The Truth About Cancer and he's gonna be on the big screen as well live from Nashville talking about his research his parents both died of cancer and he was appalled at the traditional burn-cut-poison approach and wanted to research valid bonafide scientifically proven methods that that did cure cancer and hence he brought out this DVD series and his board at a new series called The Truth About Vaccinations which we won't go into now but that opens up a whole can of worms as well so these are two other speakers that are at the symposium as well so have a look at the website HolisticCancerSymposium.com.

Tim: It'd keep 24th and 25th of March free so that you can go there I think on purposes we must make sure that we have clean air and David your dad was actually involved in the clean air act of New Zealand way back...

David: Yeah, he was. He helped draft it. He is 92.

Tim: Yeah that's right clean air pure air pure water clean vital water not sanitized water out of the tap out through your filter you've got to go one step direct yeah clearer than that and also our food chain we've got to make sure that I mean I grow a lot of my food

David: Organic system is the way to go

Tim: Yeah definitely because this is the only way we as energy beings and a greater universal energy field can orient our way through existence because at heart we are all embryo gods.

David: Absolutely that's a great segue to the food we're having at the symposium is all organic it's put on by master chef Peter Chaplin who catered for our last events who toured with Madonna for two world tours in the 90s and Madonna at that point was a vegetarian vegan and she wanted high-protein food because he's an athlete effectively and so he prepared very creatively a wide range of foods that were well absorbed that met her parameters that was organic vegetarian.

So we're gonna be experiencing his meals directly for the two morning teas the two afternoon teas and the two lunches of the event and for those that enroll for the garlotte dinner he's putting on a four-course meal there'll be free-range chicken and fish options for the meat-eaters but it'll be mainly a vegetarian menu with delicious foods throughout the entire event so he can eat her way to health and happiness.

Tim: So as a baby born into this realm is an energy bundle of exponential potential how would you like to see the babies of the world express themselves Bruce we've got half a minute.

Bruce: If they came in knowing they were creators if we gave them the programs that help them become creators rather than limiting their belief system then we open up full potential and this is the ideas that we can still do this even though we are whatever age we’re at the moment we recognize we have been programmed which we have and that we can change the program and that's where empowerment comes from and you can get out of any disease you can cause any disease with your belief but you can get out of any disease with the right belief.

David: That's empowering, that's very empowering.

Tim: Okay loving thoughts hmm.

Bruce: Well I want to thank everybody in New Zealand it's my 10th year and I tell you being a refugee from the United States at this moment I so appreciate this country and I also recognize it will be a leader in world changes as we're experiencing right now because as a country that's still dependent on community and our evolution has always been based on the individual the Darwinian beliefs survival of the fittest the individual when we learn now that the whole belief of Darwin is wrong it's survival of the community and there's New Zealand. Thank you.

David: And it's interesting that Jacinda Ardern has been called the anti-Trump.

Bruce: Oh I tell you that was a magnet that pulls me here.

Tim: Regenerative, regenerative that's the way to go. Thank you so much David and thank you so much Bruce and everybody else. On the 24th 25th of March here at AUT ...


in Auckland come and listen to these special human beings. Thank you.

David: Thank you

Bruce: Thank you

Tim: I want to conclude this extremely important interview of two very committed practitioner teachers of the importance of taking care of our body that some poetically call our temple complex as it's our body and we are all we have got so our body needs to be revered as a healthy holistic vehicle that takes us from our first breath to our last breath that needs to be honored as one of the most profound organisms on our planet.

When we recognize its complexity and intricacy as well as its ability to fully recover from some of the unconscious X meted out especially during our teenage years it is imperative that we breathe the most clearest and freshest of air, that our water needs to be the most pure and vital that we can source and our food wholesome fresh and organic.

These are the grand trine of keeping your body healthy at optimum levels yes we need some light too to enjoy an illuminated life which is interesting for the word for sun in Latin is “sol” which is the heart of our solar system then there is a soul that is a non-physical component or essence that we are spiritual beings having an earth experience and this all fits well together with the GreenPlanetFM premise of environment health in consciousness.

Because when we have a holistic understanding of our bodily composure and live at heart happily and at peace this is a forerunner towards a conscious dynamic heart-centered human who is actually being and doing.



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Tim Lynch

Tim Lynch

Tim Lynch, is a New Zealander, who is fortunate in that he has whakapapa, or a bloodline that connects him to the Aotearoan Maori. He has been involved as an activist for over 40 years - within the ecological, educational, holistic, metaphysical, spiritual & nuclear free movements. He sees the urgency of the full spectrum challenges that are coming to meet us, and is putting his whole life into being an advocate for todays and tomorrows children. 'To Mobilise Consciousness.'